On Serial Fiction

[hobgoblinn]

I heard something interesting this morning on the BBC World Service, which broadcasts locally an hour later on Sunday mornings before NPR picks up. I dozed off halfway through, but what caught my attention again was this author saying that he was supposed to send the whole completed novel to the publisher about a month after he finished publishing it in the Observer, but he needed more time. He ended up taking a few more months to revise poor choices he made due to the time constraints, including "bringing back to life characters I'd killed off."

*blinks*. That's a pretty major revision.

But it's gotten me thinking about how we -- how I -- write for this medium of Internet Fan Fiction. I've been reading a lot of Harry Potter serialized stuff on the Pit of Voles, and some of it is wonderful. Some is not. I'm wondering what it would do to the process, if I put something out that isn't "finished" yet. Thus far, I have managed to not create an eternal WIP. But the potential for that is certainly there. Better writers than I have done that.

My 06 nano novel stalled for the longest time, until I got jump started last summer by antennapedia's Antique Roman ficathon as a pinch hitter. The prompt was Exactly where I'd lost focus on that story at the time. I got 2 and a half of 3 parts finished before I lost focus again. Endings are hard. But if I had posted the first good part, would I have persevered? Or was antennapedia right-- I needed to persevere through to the end first, force that bit of discipline on myself?

Come to think of it, I started posting "Lost Boys" before it was "finished", too-- but it was much, much closer to done when I started. And I had the ficathon deadline to force me to maintain focus. "Through a Glass Darkly" was completed in draft when I posted part 1, but changed substantially on rewrite-- it wasn't until I had the finished story in my hand that I realized what it was about. And that it needed to be restructured to be from two parallel Points of View. It also had a ficathon deadline that forced the posting of at least a part by the deadline date, or I might have held on to it a little longer. And one story I'm working on now, which was part of my 07 Nano novel, has already been rewound to the point where I began to make bad choices, something I could never have done if I had been posting it as it was written.

I've got a lot of writers on my f-list, a lot of people whose opinions I respect. So I put it to you-- what are the pros and cons you see of doing something like this? If there's a middle ground, where do you decide when you have "enough" material created to start the process of posting it while writing the later segments? And how does feedback by the general public affect what you write? Or how you feel about it?

Comments

[secondalto.livejournal.com]

Currently, I have three WIPs and I knew that they would be when I posted the first parts of them.

With the first one, it's mostly a rewrite of a season tweaked for my own nefarious purposes so I pretty much know where it's going.

The other two, not so much. For those, I have some idea of where they are headed but mostly it's about the journey for me. I started writing them as a challenge and now it's all about the characters, how they are living up to the situations they are in and how they are dealing with changes in their lives and it's really fun.

Feedback is always important but it's not something that I count on for any of my WIPs. If only one or two people comment on each part I post then I'm happy. I will more than likely post a link to all the parts once I am finished and if that garners more feedback, great; if not, I'm fine with that also.

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

I admit it. I am a feedback whore. You are a better woman than I. I think there is something to be said for focusing on the what's happening now, where they are in the journey, though-- that might help some of the stuckness I'm dealing with at the moment. Thanks.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

I have an eternal WIP in the HP fandom (which I pray to God is pretty much unfindable now), because I always assumed that's how things were done in fanfiction. It wasn't until I co-wrote the two big Vorkosigan 'verse novels that I realized the advantages to not doing it that way. The disadvantages, of course, are delayed gratification and that it makes the writing process lonely as well; the most miserable I've ever been in terms of my writing when when I was trying to write a different Vorkosigan 'verse fic in a "vacuum" - just me and the fic. I need feedback as I go, but there are different ways of getting that - I prefer to get it from one person or possibly a handful of people during the process rather than actually releasing it into the wild, so to speak. You have a lot more latitude that way.

People have very different views on posting-as-you-go; personally, I don't think it's fair to the readers to be waiting months in between chapters, so I like to have at least a draft before I start posting. But someone - I think it was penwiper26? - said that to them, posting as you go is performance art, in a way. So that's a totally different view. And it is quite common on fanfiction. But for various reasons, I've chosen not to do it anymore - the most important of which is that I think my writing is better when I don't.

[rainne]

I prefer to get it from one person or possibly a handful of people during the process rather than actually releasing it into the wild, so to speak.

Yes, I agree with this exactly. I'm almost embarrassed to admit the following, but it's quite true: I have a friend in NCIS fandom who loves every single thing I write, no matter how bad it is. She is always the one I let read my stuff while I'm writing and before it goes to the beta reader, because I *need* that cheerleading when I'm stuck in a hole. Then I let it go to the beta, she cuts it up and bleeds on it, and I fix it and make it better. Without that one friend, I have more than one NCIS story that would never have seen the light of day.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

It's also often helpful to bounce ideas off someone, and you can really only do that if they've seen what you've got so far.

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

Eternal WIP? where? I shall have to go look for it now.

I appreciate your feedback, certainly. Certainly writing in a vacuum is lonely and miserable.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

Did you see I did the first two chapters of NMH yesterday? I shall try to get to some more of it this afternoon.

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

Yes-- you are a goddess. I did mention that, didn't I?

[ex-shitsu-to509.livejournal.com]

I always post WIPs. I don't start writing chapter two until chapter one is posted and so on until the story is finished. Working that way gives me the extra challenge of tying up all the lose plot ends.

Not being able to go back and revise things has only backfired once, when I wrote myself into a bit of a hole and ended up killing off characters for no other reason than to end the story. Oops.

But usually this method is fine for me. I always write the very last line first and then go back to the start and try to head in an interesting direction towards it.

Have you thought about posting a WIP, just to see how that effects the way you write?

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

Last line first-- yeah, someone down the thread mentioned that, too. Begin with the end in mind?

I can't believe how well you make that strategy work for you-- how much free writing time do you have? Because after I set something aside for a bit it is ReallY Hard to get back in the space to continue it.

And Yeah, I was thinking about trying to post a WIP and see how it affects things. But I think I might have top try it later with a whole new idea, because the current stuff is in that funny halfway state now, where I have an idea how it all fits, but haven't hit upon a good way to get there yet, and what i'm trying is so not working.

Thanks for the comment.

[ex-shitsu-to509.livejournal.com]

I'm fortunate because I write at work and don't need to set aside specific time to do so in my non-working life. I work nights at a care centre and though sometimes it gets crazy and there's not even time to sit down, at least twice a week I can write for a couple of hours, maybe more, without interruption.

You mentioned your 'current stuff' sounds promising - even though you say it's not working at the moment, you'll get there I'm sure. I look forward to it being completed and posted.

[rainne]

I don't like posting WIPs. That's a throwback to my Xena fanfiction days, and the WIPs I left behind me when I left Xena fandom that will never be finished. I actually feel guilty about that. So I don't like posting WIPs.

Turns out, that's a good thing. I have a couple of Buffyverse epics that have been languishing for two years or more simply because I haven't the inspiration or the desire to poke at them, and I would feel bad about leaving people hanging.

Series are a different story. Series to me are different from WIPs because of the way I write them. If I'm posting part of a series, it's done to a point that if I never come back to it, the ending is still at least somewhat satisfactory. Not everyone does that.

Feedback from the general public has a HUGE impact on what I write. I just posted a story about three days ago in NCIS fandom where I got sudden calls for a sequel. I was never expecting that; I was expecting it to be a one-off hurt/comfort thing. People started asking for more, and it turned into an angsty trilogy. Go figure.

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

There's a thought-- convert my outline into separate but related stories. I already know they're long, even though in my head they seem very logical and self-contained, like a computer program. That might be a way to go. At least for one of these tales. Thanks.

[lit-gal.livejournal.com]

I throw my stuff out there. Now one or two pieces have needed revision (only one major revision and that was Learning Curve), but I find my stories in the discussion I have with readers. They tell me what they think, I can see if I've put the right clues down, they have an insight that changes how I see a character. Sometimes I have to put a story to the side for a little bit to let ideas 'stew' and so that I can bang out sections that are not clear in my head yet, but I've never abandoned a WIP yet.

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

I wonder how much free writing time you have-- I suspect your strategy would work for me if I were able to commit to the kind of pace I did for nano-- sit down and write consistently every night for an hour or two. But I think Wee Hob is suffering a bit from my distraction that month, and he needs more sttention just now. Only, being 12, he can't say, "Mommy, I need your attention." He has to do goofy things that guarantee my undivided attention. Which he is sorry he's got now....

Balancing real life and writing is hard. I need less real life. Seriously.

[lit-gal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's definitely different when you don't have kids. I do about an hour every night, so if I throw stuff away, I don't feel too bad because there's just more coming.

[rahirah]

I've done it both ways - started off with no end in mind, and started off with a meticulously worked out outline in hand. On the whole, I prefer the latter. It's much easier to finish a story if I know where it's going. If I get stuck, it's generally not because I don't know where to go, but because I've hit a snag in getting there.

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, snags. That's me, outline or no. What I was wrestling with this weekend makes me glad I didn't succumb (yet) to the "put the good first part out there and hope for the best" temptation. Because neither of my attempts to course correct seem to be working.

Plan C coming up, I guess....

[heron-pose.livejournal.com]

Golly. I think I have more to say about this than I can put together sensibly, here. But, for what it's worth: reading WIPs that never finished used to really gut me, and when I started posting fics I kinda thought I'd never do that.

OTOH, I used to really enjoy serial fics, and when i started posting Gethsemane I had a well-worked-out outline, a good sense of how many chapters it would be, and (I thought) the right sort of time ahead of me. But, the story took a turn -- which I fully endorsed (that is, I guess, I changed my mind about the plot), and then I wanted to be true to the experiences of the characters, and blah blah, and then some RL happened that whacked me into left field.

Long story short -- I think you should do whatever you want. It's fun to see people's enthusiasm about a story as you post serially, but you cannot promise anything.

I'm still very much an amateur, I feel, but I don't think authors of fanfic who post online really owe any particular thing to their audience. I wouldn't post a story if I couldn't see an end, because part of me believes my characters get stuck wherever I leave them (let alone 'my' readers), and I know that feeling. But that's me. And I *will* finish Gethsemene, because 3 people still care! They do! But dang, we all take risks when we start to read things -- that's life, no?

And now we know why I should think before I comment. Sorry for the ramble!

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

No ramble at all; I'm happy to see your thoughts.

One difficulty I'm noticing with the WIPs I'm reading on the Pit at the moment (and Home Repairs and your Gethsemane are other examples) is that it's hard to keep track of where the story left off. Unless things are being updated so frequently that you can be assured a reader is keeping the situation in mind, you tend to lose people who have multiple versions of these characters running around doing different things in different fics they happen to be reading.

So it seems to me that unless I can commit to something like weekly updates, I probably should be more disciplined and hold off starting to post anything.

And add me to the list of people who care about Gethsemane, even if I'm going to have to start from the beginning again to follow your thread.

[heron-pose.livejournal.com]

I hear you -- it's like you need a "previously, in Gethsemane ... and I think I almost remember some of the ones I'm *reading* better than the one I'm supposed to be *writing*, which slows the process of posting still further, as one has continuity worries ...

And, I'm so!glad you care, and it is on the precipice, about to land, I promise! And then I'll repost the whole thing, probably on L's Anya/Giles fic community.

[lit-gal.livejournal.com]

Now that is my problem with WIP's. I totally lose track of where I left characters unless the WIP is so incredibly AU that I don't have any similar versions of those characters in my head. That's why I do the spurting thing. I follow the muse, and if she starts drying up, I let the fic sit, I write future scenes, I play with the ideas privately until I have a strong enough feeling to take it and run again. So, I'll do several chapters a week, stop for a month (so I have to do a previously on... and then pick up the story for as long as the muse can carry me.

I may be echoing others . . .

[father-turtle.livejournal.com]

I've never written anything in a serial fashion, though I think the motivation factor of having a deadline makes a lot of sense, especially for someone like me who is used to having deadlines and who works better at the last minute. If there is always a last minute, then I'll always be motivated.

You must be confident in your idea, and it would be best to have an outline. You can edit that outline as you go, but you must have an idea where you're going from the start.

And it wouldn't hurt to have three or four chapters in the bag before you publish the first one.

By the way, I haven't forgotten to proof and beta your stuff. Time has been at a premium. I should be able to get to it this week.

ETA: Oh. I posted my NaNo novel as I wrote it, even though only one person read it, so far as I know. I've done some new work on it since I posted it, so I'll have to repost an edited version someday, but I think it kept the pressure on me to keep writing.

Re: I may be echoing others . . .

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the advice, and for looking at my stuff. I figured you were busy with kids or sermon writing, which is fine. I'll appreciate whatever you can do when you get to it. Wee Hob has been endlessly creative getting into mischief of late, so my free time has been a little curtailed as well.

[arcanetrivia]

I would never post a WIP in a public place, i.e., outside my own journal, and I really wouldn't even do that, because it seems like I am trying to draw people's attention when it is not deserved (i.e., they have the right to expect more). I cannot possibly trust myself to finish anything on a schedule, as I simply don't have the skill and the "oomph".

I don't mind reading WIPs, really; I have a bunch of alert subscriptions on the Pit. I just know that for myself, if something wasn't already completed, there's about a 99% chance it never will be. That's why I only write drabbles, really; those I can actually get finished. I haven't the steam for longer things. I don't know how people do it, and do it fast, even. (For example, I was aghast to see who_la_hoop mentioned she had already sent her wankfest fic off to beta; that means she wrote it in just a couple of days, and if "101 Ways to Heal Your Wizarding Woes" is any indication, she's probably written at least 10k in that time.)

[bemoan1000.livejournal.com]

As a reader I’ve learned that if I start reading a WIP that I might not get an ending. I have learned that this is part of this genre. Kind of like reader beware. I also know as a writer how real life happens or when the imagination stops or goes to a different story. Maybe it is just me and I’m a scattered brain, which is good when it comes to reading many stories at the same time, because I seem to remember where I left off.

As a writer I would not post a WIP because I tend to start and not finish. Here being a scatter brain isn’t so good. I also edit myself a lot, because I can go on and on about something that brings nothing to the story, especially with dialogue. But this is me, and maybe a WIP might help me move, but at this time I wouldn’t dare. I also think that there are some that probably do their best work with WIP, because they get some ideas and motivation from the readers. I personally think I would panic and draw a blank.

[firefly124.livejournal.com]

As you know, I have a WIP going right now. I already had a nearly-completed first draft before I started getting it beta'ed and posting it. So I thought I'd be able to post at a rate of about a chapter a week pretty consistently. If you look at the dates on some of those chapters, you'll see that the week became two, three, sometimes as many as six or eight. The revisions that have been coming up as I go have been much more substantial than I'd expected, and they keep snowballing. Between that and the fact I keep finding things I'd like to go back and change in already-posted chapters, I think I've about sworn off posting anything until it's done, including done being beta'ed.

The downside to doing it that way, of course, is not getting as much feedback until later. And some of the feedback I've gotten has shaped the story and sub-themes I've chosen to develop or not, so part of me hates to give that up. But I probably will, because I think the final product will be better if I make sure it's all done first.