Anybody up for some Snape musings?
Sep. 26th, 2007 08:16 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hobgoblinnI'm close to the end of my first Harry Potter fic now. "Close" meaning, I think I have an idea where it's going, how it ends and what it's about. The "Two Dads" thing I posted this weekend was really a prologue for the story I'm talking about now.
But I'd like to ask friends who feel like it to have a look at some of my musings about Snape, in terms of how this story ends. Any takers?
I'll put it behind a cut.
And hey-- every once in a while, the iTunes Free Single of the Week is actually decent. The song listed under "my music" just now is really, really nice. I've been coming back to it since I downloaded it this morning. If you have iTunes, go to the iTunes store home page and get this while you can.
The following is a very rambling look at where I want the main story continued from “Two Dads” to go. Basically, David Dursley meets Snape’s ghost in the dungeons of Hogwarts and the two form an unlikely friendship. I have the first three parts written and I think they’re good. But I need to know where I’m writing to. The working title is “Lost Boys.”
There’s still time to turn back if you don’t want to be spoiled for the story, or if this is too boring for you.
What’s this story about? The prologue is about two fathers united in a love and acceptance of their children. And about a willingness to put aside old differences for the sake of the children.
Could the main story have a parallel structure? Or what if identity and actions are important to David and to Snape? Snape throughout the books does decent things at times that make a difference, but his own bitterness and regrets poison his good deeds and ultimately make them worthless. What if having lost so much of that bitterness with the memories that went with it, Snape is able to fall into the familiar pattern of aiding a boy who needs it? And in so doing, he’s able to give and receive friendship in a way he could not in life, when all the competing demands of being spy, teacher, guilty sinner, etc. got in his way?
So Snape falls into a pattern of aiding a boy who needs help, then grows fond of him because he reminds him, not just of Lily or the people in the mirror, but of himself cut off from not only his old identity, and himself not fitting in to the pureblood society that had been so important to him. And in some ways the friendship could also mirror the one with Lily, with him guiding a muggleborn child who was missing a great deal of basic information about their world.
How does Harry figure in to this at the last? He has to be the one to give Snape back his identity, and to make his peace with an adult who had all the complex motivations and desires he himself has come to understand now that he is Snape’s age. He’s had time to come to believe that Snape was the bravest man he ever knew. What does that mean for him? He also has a “saving people thing” and would not let Snape, even if he still hated him, be lost to some eternal damnation if he had the power to help.
But the main POV is Snape’s. A difficult narrator, in that he is missing major chunks of information/ identity, and he further does not want to grow or change. He’s right in believing that if he finds out who he was, the knowledge will not make him happier or better off. His personality, before fragmentation, was someone who was willing to give up everything of his own because -- why does he do what he does? Guilt? Love? Stubbornness? Need to work this out, difficult given JRK’s inconsistent treatment of themes. In any event, he’s not likely to be motivated now by any kind of self interest. Maybe as an abuse victim a good part of his makeup is of someone who doesn’t believe he deserves anything for himself, so his giving up everything is a kind of habit, a way to try to earn some kind of worth he doesn’t possess internally.
So-- someone else’s well being has to be affected by his choice to accept his past, or it has to be sprung on him without his consent. Or maybe a little of both-- what if Harry sees him in the infirmary when David is ill, that night when he brings the potion, and starts to suspect then that Snape is not as gone as they’d thought?
What exactly is the consequence if they leave Snape alone and fragmented? Well, if anyone else suspects his continued existence, they might pervert him to some dark purpose. Without his memories to guide him, he could be easily manipulated to do or teach others dark arts. We already know he’s not an inherently “good” man.
So one of the conversations David and Snape have has to be about dark wizards and why people follow them.
Another has to be about how love is actions and choices, not a feeling. And it lies in the lover, not the beloved. I love because of who I am, not who or what you are. How would Snape have come by that wisdom? Or is it something David repeats that clicks for Snape, solving an old problem/ confusion for him?
David has to be there for the ending. His living presence started Snape back on a road to regaining himself-- he has to be there for the final choice.
Lost Boys-- what’s the connection to Peter Pan-- boys who are separated from normal human life and never grow up, who cling to that half life in fear, as Peter does. So the title has a double meaning- David literally lost in the beginning, and Snape coming out of the shadows at the last to embrace his humanity, however painful, and then to go on into the next world as “himself”-- not the lost boy, nor the bitter, lost caricature of a man Harry knew. Do some research into this.
But I'd like to ask friends who feel like it to have a look at some of my musings about Snape, in terms of how this story ends. Any takers?
I'll put it behind a cut.
And hey-- every once in a while, the iTunes Free Single of the Week is actually decent. The song listed under "my music" just now is really, really nice. I've been coming back to it since I downloaded it this morning. If you have iTunes, go to the iTunes store home page and get this while you can.
The following is a very rambling look at where I want the main story continued from “Two Dads” to go. Basically, David Dursley meets Snape’s ghost in the dungeons of Hogwarts and the two form an unlikely friendship. I have the first three parts written and I think they’re good. But I need to know where I’m writing to. The working title is “Lost Boys.”
There’s still time to turn back if you don’t want to be spoiled for the story, or if this is too boring for you.
What’s this story about? The prologue is about two fathers united in a love and acceptance of their children. And about a willingness to put aside old differences for the sake of the children.
Could the main story have a parallel structure? Or what if identity and actions are important to David and to Snape? Snape throughout the books does decent things at times that make a difference, but his own bitterness and regrets poison his good deeds and ultimately make them worthless. What if having lost so much of that bitterness with the memories that went with it, Snape is able to fall into the familiar pattern of aiding a boy who needs it? And in so doing, he’s able to give and receive friendship in a way he could not in life, when all the competing demands of being spy, teacher, guilty sinner, etc. got in his way?
So Snape falls into a pattern of aiding a boy who needs help, then grows fond of him because he reminds him, not just of Lily or the people in the mirror, but of himself cut off from not only his old identity, and himself not fitting in to the pureblood society that had been so important to him. And in some ways the friendship could also mirror the one with Lily, with him guiding a muggleborn child who was missing a great deal of basic information about their world.
How does Harry figure in to this at the last? He has to be the one to give Snape back his identity, and to make his peace with an adult who had all the complex motivations and desires he himself has come to understand now that he is Snape’s age. He’s had time to come to believe that Snape was the bravest man he ever knew. What does that mean for him? He also has a “saving people thing” and would not let Snape, even if he still hated him, be lost to some eternal damnation if he had the power to help.
But the main POV is Snape’s. A difficult narrator, in that he is missing major chunks of information/ identity, and he further does not want to grow or change. He’s right in believing that if he finds out who he was, the knowledge will not make him happier or better off. His personality, before fragmentation, was someone who was willing to give up everything of his own because -- why does he do what he does? Guilt? Love? Stubbornness? Need to work this out, difficult given JRK’s inconsistent treatment of themes. In any event, he’s not likely to be motivated now by any kind of self interest. Maybe as an abuse victim a good part of his makeup is of someone who doesn’t believe he deserves anything for himself, so his giving up everything is a kind of habit, a way to try to earn some kind of worth he doesn’t possess internally.
So-- someone else’s well being has to be affected by his choice to accept his past, or it has to be sprung on him without his consent. Or maybe a little of both-- what if Harry sees him in the infirmary when David is ill, that night when he brings the potion, and starts to suspect then that Snape is not as gone as they’d thought?
What exactly is the consequence if they leave Snape alone and fragmented? Well, if anyone else suspects his continued existence, they might pervert him to some dark purpose. Without his memories to guide him, he could be easily manipulated to do or teach others dark arts. We already know he’s not an inherently “good” man.
So one of the conversations David and Snape have has to be about dark wizards and why people follow them.
Another has to be about how love is actions and choices, not a feeling. And it lies in the lover, not the beloved. I love because of who I am, not who or what you are. How would Snape have come by that wisdom? Or is it something David repeats that clicks for Snape, solving an old problem/ confusion for him?
David has to be there for the ending. His living presence started Snape back on a road to regaining himself-- he has to be there for the final choice.
Lost Boys-- what’s the connection to Peter Pan-- boys who are separated from normal human life and never grow up, who cling to that half life in fear, as Peter does. So the title has a double meaning- David literally lost in the beginning, and Snape coming out of the shadows at the last to embrace his humanity, however painful, and then to go on into the next world as “himself”-- not the lost boy, nor the bitter, lost caricature of a man Harry knew. Do some research into this.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 02:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 03:05 am (UTC)Thanks for the comment.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 03:38 am (UTC)The Lost Boys go back because they are entranced by a story Wendy tells them about mothers and 'the Wendy-Lady', she tell it in the hope of getting Peter to agree to go back but he's the only one it doesn't work on - 'they decide to leave their loved one for the sheer novelty of doing so' and when they are back in London, at school and growing up they 'think themselves absolute goats for not staying in Neverland' and are described as being 'grown up and done for'.
I did the book at uni and have never recovered, hence the quoting :-) Love that you're using themes from it in a Potterverse story. I shall wait not at all patiently to read it.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 12:05 pm (UTC)Another thing I took from the early characterization in that book was how Puck/faerie-like Peter is. In the sense of not being human any longer, and not able to even comprehend basic human emotions and motivations. Anything that didn't apply to him and his fun personally was not even on his little radar screen. Like a little kid-- he didn't mean to be good or bad, the distinction just doesn't even register for him.
Okay, now I'll have to go back and take a look at the original(s). But darn it, this is actually not the worst title I've ever come up with-- I hate to jettison it because it doesn't apply (or can't be made to apply) to my theme. Such that it is.
Thanks for remedying my ignorance, though.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 12:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 04:13 pm (UTC)Happy reading. If you really want to kick the arse of it then check out 'J.M Barrie and The Lost Boys' by Andrew Birken' - it concerns Barrie and his complex relationship with the five Llewellyn-Davis brothers whom he adopts when they become orphaned.
You have me hooked already on this story. Am loving the idea of a Dursley at Hogwarts - did I tell you how much I liked 'Two Dads?' hope I did - and Snape's ghost lurking there too. How will he get on with the other Hogwarts ghosts? So much potential, good luck with it. Hope you post something soon.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-27 10:01 pm (UTC)But now, the story is taking a different shape, and if anything gets resolved between Harry and Snape it will be incidental, I think.
If you'd like to beta this (and thus see the first three bits now), let me know and I'll put it out on google documents for you to mock. Otherwise, nothing's going up until I have a full draft. I have learned my lesson about WIPs.
I skimmed a lot of Peter Pan in Kennsington Gardens today-- the text of that one is online. I think I was right about the oddly mixed feeling, especially for Peter early on, neither human and longer nor truly fitting into the bird/ faerie world. I think the title still works.
Thanks for the feedback on "Two Dads"-- I'm pleased you liked it. And thanks for the conversation. Sometimes, these really do help.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-28 12:42 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-29 04:28 am (UTC)I don't think your take on Snape is all that off, though.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-01 12:46 pm (UTC)I think I'm resigned now to seeing the Snape Jo wrote, but choosing to write the one I want to write. She's inconsistent enough I can get away with it. It was good for me to wrestle with the inconsistencies, but at some point, I have to make a choice about the character I want to spend time with. And what I want to say with him. Hopefully, it will work.
Thanks again for your time.
Hob