Fic notice: In Loco Parentis Part 5 Posted (HP genfic)

[hobgoblinn]

Well, part 5 of my EIP (Epic in Progress) is now up on ff net: here.

I'm pleased with how it's going, even as I despair of getting any further or fixing the glaring deficiencies every time I sit down to it. I owe a huge debt to my betas, not only on this work (research_girl and sahiya) but also on other work, past and present. You all know who you are. I'm too afraid of missing any to list you all out. It's weird though-- I really have written a lot over the past year and a half.

slaymesoftly posed an interesting question about betas recently on riters_r_us. How do you deal as a beta with a writer who really is Bad? I'm not that bad, but I am painfully aware my imperfections must also be painful (or painfully funny maybe at times) to read. But I noticed going through the beta notes on this part, that after I cleared away the things they noted, it somehow gave me insight into things they hadn't complained about. I added some things, tweaked some others, and I can just feel that it's better than it would have been. It's almost like clearing away the dead wood let the rest flourish.

And it also let me pull my focus away from some things I thought were bad that they didn't mention, to see other things. To trust that they were okay enough to move on and see something I hadn't before. Not sure I can explain it any better, but I am quite grateful for how it worked out.

Happy Holy Saturday to all.

Comments

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

How do you deal as a beta with a writer who really is Bad?

I try not to. I have in the past, for one reason or another, and I've also worked as a writing tutor, which is similar in some ways. Basically you have to say, "This is never going to end up as if I had written it" and focus on a few things. I made the mistake once of pointing out everything I saw wrong in a story, and the writer never posted it. I wasn't mean in my comments (though I did beg her to learn the rules for dialogue punctuation in English, which might have been going a bit far, but OMFG), but she still ended up really discouraged. Since then I've decided that if I end up beta reading something that's just painful, you have to focus on one thing.

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

Thanks for sharing your wisdom, lady. You might want to come back later and see what got talked about down the thread. An interesting discussion.

[bemoan1000.livejournal.com]

This is a good question. And how bad is bad? And what is that one thing?

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

Well, if I would hit the back button on it, I'd classify it as bad. But My reading standards are pretty high. As a beta (or a judge for that matter) when I want to gnaw my eyeballs out to escape, it's bad. Different scale.

Seriously, I do what some other people on the thread here and at riters_r_us suggested-- give Extremely Painfully detailed comments on what's wrong and Why for at least a good chunk or section of the work, and see how they respond. If they're learning and growing, I am willing to put in my time, but I really have to see they're putting as much into it as I am, trying to avoid the same mistakes and asking good questions. I would say I use the "don't have time excuse" to extricate myself from bad situations, but in fact I've also used it more often for people who were doing well and showed promise, because I really Didn't have time. As a perusal of the tag "wee hob" on my journal should make abundantly clear.

The one thing idea I agree with-- for me it's generally the one element I think the writer is at a place where s/he's receptive or able to learn it. Or for a better author, a challenge to take it that one step further-- to make the leap from a nice fluffy short romp to something with a theme, some substance.

Some people don't Want that, though. Incidentally, you might go back and post this question as a reply on sahiya's comment and see what her response to the same question might be. She probably won't see this reply, but she would see it in her e-mail if you replied directly on her comment.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

Bad for beta reading is not the same as bad for regular reading, for me. Things that would make me hit the back button in a posted fic are things to flag in a beta read. But bad for beta reading for me means . . . well, sometimes it's grammar, because bad grammar makes me want to weep, but more often it's just this indefinable not right feeling that's much, much harder to fix. And it takes a lot of work to pinpoint exactly where the problem is and help the writer work it out (if the writer is interested in working it out - some writers aren't in fandom, but that's a different issue).

[bemoan1000.livejournal.com]

I have to say that I’m probably on the opposite side of the fence when it comes to grammar. I can deal with misspelled words here and there, misplace commas and other mistakes, mostly because I don’t see them and do it myself. Not on purpose.

For me a story can always be improved. I don’t have a beta and hope some day I do, if I continue. I think that it is important for each to know what to expect from each other. I think there are some writers who want the betas to do all the correcting, and to me that is not right. A writer has to learn to look at their own work. I personally think that a writer should look at their own work at least three times before handing it to a beta.

And as for that not right sometimes, for me, has to do with style. I know there are a lot of stories that have great ideas and are grammatical correct, but I don’t like how it is being told.

[sahiya.livejournal.com]

I think a good beta/writer relationship is key - and makes writing a lot more fun, as it happens. The loneliest I've ever been in fandom was after I fell out with my long time beta.

[samson28.livejournal.com]

Yeah for the update. I'm really enjoying the story so shall go read in a few.

I have only beta read a few times as my punctuation is pretty hit and miss! I was to check out the spellings and characterisation.

Well I slunk away quietly after reading a few chapters. The author was ever so nice and very often took a few of my suggestions but the characterisation of Snape was just so awful - he was like a fluffy, insipid kitten. I cringed everytime he said anything and just knew I wouldn't be able to read anymore.

Thing is, I can read and enjoy well written badfic but this was bad!

[hobgoblinn.livejournal.com]

I think if I had been beta-ing something like that, I'd ask the author some questions about how she sees Snape, and why.

For instance, I Really Like Snape and think he got a rum deal in canon-- I often have to stop myself from being too easy on him, or making him too sympathetic for just that reason. I struggle with Ethan and Spike in much the same way-- they're Evil, but so fun and funny.

And maybe there's a good reason the author is making him a kitten-- some change in circumstance she's working from but hasn't made clear enough. That's information an author needs to know.

For an isolated thing, I'd flag it OOC, but if it's pervasive like you're describing, something else may be at work. Maybe something the author hasn't consciously noticed yet.

This is the only Kitten icon I have-- it's supposed to be Giles from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[samson28.livejournal.com]

Such a cute kitty Giles! I shall try not sneeze on him as I'm allergic. :)

I do think Snape and other characters such as Spike and Ethan can be hard to write incharacter, but taking away their snark and attitude they lose something.

[bemoan1000.livejournal.com]

I also think taking away their snark they lose a lot. For me they become different characters. I stop reading a story if this happens, but I know that there is an audience for these characters to become “nice.”

I still have yet to read any BVS. I’m starting on season 3 now.